Hear, hear

As biz leaders call for a climate bill, Republicans claim it would kill the economy 8

Ray LaHood, Steven Chu, and Lisa Jackson testify before the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Though corporate leaders from across the country came to the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Wednesday asking representatives to put a cap on carbon, leading Republicans on the committee held firm in their contention that mandating emission reductions would be catastrophic for the nation’s economy.

The first full day of hearings on the proposed Waxman-Markey climate bill found Republican members repeating thoroughly debunked claims about how much a cap-and-trade plan would cost American households, even as leaders from some of the country’s biggest companies joined the EPA administrator in arguing that limits on carbon would benefit the country in the long run.

“If we design this bill right, if we get the transitions right, it will put us in a position to be stronger. It will not weaken our economy over time,” Jim Rogers, CEO of Duke Energy, told the committee in his testimony. “It won’t be easy, it won’t be quick, but it must be fair, and it must be now.”

Still, Republicans on the panel argued that the bill would be dangerous. “A cap-and-tax, cap-and-trade will essentially kick American families when they’re down,” said Fred Upton (R-Mich.). “I do believe that we need to reduce emissions, but it needs to be done in a commonsense way that takes into account the economic and global realities of the issue.”

Getting down to business

The panel of business leaders gave insight into how the bill might be shaped going forward, if they have their way.

Rogers testified on behalf of the United States Climate Action Partnership, the coalition of business and environmental groups whose blueprint for climate action served as a model for the House bill now being debated.

He was joined on the panel by fellow USCAP members Charles Holliday, chairman of DuPont; Red Cavaney, senior vice president for government and public affairs for ConocoPhillips; Meg McDonald, director of global issues for Alcoa Inc.; David Crane, CEO of NRG Energy; and Frances Beinecke, president of the Natural Resources Defense Council. Though some expressed concerns with specific components of the bill, the entirety of the panel called for the committee to pass a cap-and-trade plan this year. “In the long run, I think it will help us be more competitive,” said Holliday.

But their testimony didn’t persuade Republicans on the panel, who insisted that the bill would drain jobs from the economy. Ralph Hall (R-Texas) warned that it would weaken U.S. competitiveness on a global scale.

That’s not to say USCAP members were entirely keen on the draft bill at this point. Rogers argued that its renewable energy standard is too stringent and states should be allowed to set their own goals. He also expressed concern about the program kicking in by 2012, and suggested to reporters afterwards that a five-year window before it goes into effect might be more appropriate.

All of the business leaders called for a significant portion of carbon credits to be distributed free of cost in the early years of the cap-and-trade program, saying it was essential to help businesses successfully shift gears. “We’ve got to get the transition right, or it could have a devastating effect on our economy,” said Rogers. “The whole sport is around whether we get the transition right.”

The current draft of the bill doesn’t address the question of what proportion of credits to auction off versus hand out to polluters, which will be a highly contentious issue going forward. The Obama administration has said it wants 100 percent auction, while the committee’s Democratic leadership has indicated that the final product is likely to be a balance between auctions and allocations. Cavaney of ConocoPhillips called for the entirety of the credits to be distributed free of cost in at least the first year of the program. NRG’s Crane said his company would not support the bill if it was all auction.

Bill coauthor Ed Markey (D-Mass.) has said this aspect of the bill was left open-ended so committee members and interested parties like USCAP could weigh in. But this approach has rankled Republicans on the committee. Ranking member Joe Barton (Texas) accused the majority of “trying to buy votes” in the process of determining how to give away allowances. John Shimkus (R-Ill.)  alleged that the lack of specifics is an “intentional move to deceive us so we can’t do the cost-benefit analysis.”

Beaming in from Obamaland

During another panel session, EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, Energy Secretary Steven Chu, and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood offered the Obama administration’s support for the legislation. “Three important players in this issue, that represent the president, believe the principles laid out in the bill are very strong and are principles the president and his team can work with,” LaHood told reporters following their testimony.

Jackson was asked how the EPA had been able to estimate the costs of the bill to American households—$98 to $140 a year, or 27 cents to 38 cents a day—even though the measure is incomplete. She said the agency based its figures on the assumption that approximately 40 percent of auction revenues would be returned to consumers through rebates.

“The EPA’s economic analysis shows that there are no harbingers of huge job loss in this bill,” said Jackson. “Nothing is free,” she continued, but the administration believes there will be only “modest impacts.” If anything, Jackson said, EPA modeling tends to err on the conservative side and overestimate costs.

Jackson said the administration is willing to collaborate with Congress to develop an allocation and auction scheme. “Though [President Obama] has called for 100 percent auction, he looks forward to working with this committee ... and believes that these allowance questions can be addressed,” she said.

Jackson was also asked about the EPA’s finding last week that carbon dioxide emissions are a danger to public health, which triggers the process of regulating the pollutant under the Clean Air Act. While Jackson acknowledged that the agency is beginning that regulatory process, she made it clear that EPA rules would take months to finalize.  She said the administration would prefer that Congress pass a new bill directly addressing the issue—but that doesn’t mean it’s going to wait around.

“The race is clearly on and time is of the essence,” she told reporters.

And this is only the beginning ...

There were four separate panels on the climate bill on Wednesday, involving 21 witnesses. The fourth was added at the last minute to accommodate witnesses whom the minority members of the panel had requested, including representatives from conservative outposts like the Heritage Foundation, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the American Enterprise Institute. The hearings stretched on for more than 10 hours, and by the end, as few as four members of the committee were actually present to hear testimony.

The day certainly had its theatrics—especially from the committee’s resident climate skeptics. Shimkus was one of the more dramatic participants, raising his voice at several points.

“This is the largest assault on democracy and freedom in this country that I’ve every experienced,”  he said during the day’s first panel. “I’ve lived through an impeachment, two wars, terrorist attacks ... I fear this more than any of the above activities.”

But the Democratic leadership of the panel seems to be taking it for granted that they’ll be able to pass a bill out of their committee in the next five weeks, even if it’s still not entirely clear what that bill will look like.

“It is no longer a question of whether we will act to reduce CO2 emissions,” said Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.). “The real question is whether we will do so in a way that strengthens our economy, creates new jobs, and ends our dangerous dependence on foreign oil.”

Kate Sheppard is Grist’s political reporter.

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  1. Steven Earl Salmony Posted 6:32 am
    23 Apr 2009

    Thanks Kate. The ideas generated here appear vital. While I am one who agrees with anyone who reports, "No one can predict the future", I also believe we can likely agree that if the human community keep doing precisely what we are doing now, we will keep getting what we are getting now.

    One indication of faulty reasoning and extreme foolishness, I suppose, would be for us to believe that we can keep overconsuming, overproducing and overpopulating in our planetary home as we have been doing for the past eight years and somehow expect to achieve different results from the ones we so clearly see occurring.

    If, for example, by doing "more of the same business-as-usual activities" that we are doing now, we could be leading our children down a "primrose path" to a recognizably horrendous fate of some unknowable kind, would reason and common sense not suggest a change in behavior?

    We have self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe among us who are recommending to the children that all of us live large and long by conspicuously consuming limited resources, polluting a frangible environment, overpopulating a finite planet and ravaging the Earth......just the way we are doing now. These arrogant and avaricious leaders are living examples of patently unsustainable lives and, yes, they take pride in their gigantic ecological 'footprints' and lifestyles based upon excessive consumption and unbridled hoarding. If our children were to keep doing what my not-so-great generation of elders are adamantly advocating and doing now, what is likely to become of them? The mere contemplation of the children's prospects leaves with a keen sense of foreboding.

    My growing sense of frustration results from a realization that remarkably clear, intellectually honest and morally courageous reports from so many responsible and duty-bound scientists show us that the Masters of the Universe are determined to deny what could somehow be real and not to speak publicly about what they believe to be true regarding the human-driven predicament for which a single generation bears a lion's share of responsibility and in which the family of humanity finds itself in these early years of Century XXI. Even worse, their minions with leadership responsibilities and duties in environmental organizations have collusively allowed themselves to be enjoined from speaking about whatsoever they believe to be true. As a consequence, a conspiracy of silence has been established between many too many economic powerbrokers and environmentalists. All the while, absurdly enriched "talking heads" in the mass media eschew intellectual honesty and moral courage in favor of reporting repetitively about whatsoever is politically convenient, economically expedient, socially agreeable and religiously tolerated.

    The silence of so many leaders is deafening, while the duplicitous, disinformational chatter of the talking heads is morally outrageous. What is much worse, sad to say, is that the determination of this woefully inadequate leadership and the bought-and-paid-for talking heads to live large and long in such stupendously unsustainable ways -- come what may for the children -- is not only grossly irresponsible, it is a profound dereliction of their duty to warn, I believe.Steven Earl SalmonyAWAREness Campaign on The Human Population, established 2001http://sustainabilityscience.org/content.html?contentid=1176http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php
  2. SallyVCrockett Posted 8:33 am
    23 Apr 2009

    Former Under Secretary of Commerce and current U.S. Climate Task Force (CTF) Chairman Robert Shapiro said it best yesterday:“It’s appropriate and right that on this Earth Day, Capitol Hill is focused on improving our global climate. This week, Congress hears testimony on the Waxman-Markey bill. While we applaud all efforts to address the prospect of climate change, the cap-and-trade system outlined in this legislation cannot offer us the opportunity to both mitigate carbon emissions and protect the economy at the same time. “Rather than adopt a complex, carbon trading system that would produce volatile energy prices, a growing number of U.S. economic and environmental experts and leaders now support a straightforward, carbon tax — a policy that’s simple, transparent, and easy to administer. Moreover, the revenues from this approach can be recycled in tax relief for American families, protecting them and the overall economy. "Good intentions are not always good enough. Our political leaders must take serious steps to address climate change, and they must do so in ways that are both smart and practical. Congress should weigh carefully the risks and benefits of all proposed climate policies — including both a carbon tax-shift and cap-and-trade. It would be deeply regrettable to wake up on future Earth Days knowing that the means we pursued in 2009 didn’t end up promoting all of the country’s goals.”
  3. catmandew Posted 11:19 am
    23 Apr 2009

     Kate, I need help! I listened to Steven Chu last night. I was impressed with his view of the big energy picture, but, I am now a bit confused. Chu is an advocate of nuclear power. In Germany and throughout much of Europe, nuclear power is now a definite NO NO! In fact, as the result of a law past by the Euro-Greens Germany must close all of its 17 nuclear power plants by 2020.  Chernobyl scared the Grist out of Europe.  As a result of that law, Germany is now attempting to develop “clean coal” technology. Since we all know there is no such thing as “clean coal”, if Chu is a rampant supporter of nuclear energy, is he a Green, or a Mean???? C...
  4. Noah Pollock Posted 11:35 am
    23 Apr 2009

    Earlier this week, Forbes came out with an article (commented by Joe Romm at http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/009766.html) which proclaimed that both "Denmark is the best country in the world for business" AND the proposed cap and trade programs for the U.S. "threaten to damage our economic competitiveness, particularly in industrial sectors." Clearly, mainstream politicans, economists, and the media are confused about how seriously addressing climate change will impact our economy. As traditional worldviews about how economies work and about "what is good for business" change, we will continue to have this debate. At the University of Vermont's Institute for Global Sustainability, we're working to make sure robust, science based analysis can be used by champions of good climate policy. For when a systems view is taken, we learn that the debate between the economy and ecology should be put to rest. Both terms have the same route, "eco" - a symbol for how they are intrinsically linked. When one sees the economy as a subset of a larger ecosystem, suddenly taking steps to ensure the vital ecosystem service of climate stability are well worth the effort and cost.This summer we'll be offering several courses exploring this and other issues. I encourage fellow readers to check them out at http://learn.uvm.edu/igs/ecological_economic
  5. GreyFlcn Posted 11:46 am
    23 Apr 2009

    Well lets say they are right.

    The whole premise here is that we'd need to make an extremely harsh dis-incentive against carbon emissions to get the market to artificially value carbon reductions.But what if doing that would have too many social harm side effects, Or would never be strong enough to give it any urgency.Well then, the only real option left after that is to use the Federal Government spending.

    If we can do it for a Wall Street Crisis, why can't we do it for a Planetary Crisis?
  6. Christopher S. Johnson's avatar

    Christopher S. Johnson Posted 3:13 pm
    23 Apr 2009

    Kate, I cant tell you how much many of us appreciate your coverage of this whole story. Thank you very much.
  7. gullyfourmyle's avatar

    gullyfourmyle Posted 4:55 pm
    23 Apr 2009

     1.      Steven Earl Salmony said:"If, for example, by doing "more of the same business-as-usual activities" that we are doing now, we could be leading our children down a "primrose path" to a recognizably horrendous fate of some unknowable kind, would reason and common sense not suggest a change in behavior?"Just to fill everyone in on what everyone thinks is unknowable - this is exactly what will happen if we do not master the Chemical Winter scenario the Republicans think we can't do business without:Our air is loaded with Volatile Organic Compounds including benzene in amounts that are already beginning to affect the genetic structure of all living things. Genetic integrity is vital to the survival of life on this planet. There is no immunity to genetic destruction by these molecules. They are known as transdermals. That means they pass through skin and do what solvents always do - they try to turn what they touch - including your internal organs - into a liquid - a non-sentient puddle in other words. Medically these puddles are described as tumours.Once your DNA or the DNA of any living creature is altered, the chances of there being a future generation is diminshed. The chances of that generation having a subsequent generation is questionable if not impossible. That is called extinction.Right now, basic life systems - the bottom of the food chain - are collapsing all around the world on a frightening scale. You don't have to take my word for this. You can google population collapses for yourself. Use your imagination and try different approaches to this and you will soon find scientists posting claims that the creatures they’re studying are disappearing. My research and discussions with top scientists confirms this.If any of you Republicans think you can carry on business as usual on a dead planet, I believe you are in for a rude shock.In the nearer term, this is another aspect of the unknowable as it applies to the US (I'm Canadian):The water supply to the midwestern states is going to run out when the icesheets (glaciers) in your section of the Rockies finish evaporating and melting. A couple of years ago that time frame was estimated to be about 15 years. My estimate is 10 years.To put this in perspective, in 1900 you had 150 glaciers feeding your rivers to irrigate your land. You have 15 quickly shrinking glaciers left.All of the watercourses flowing east from the Rockies into the western prairie states are profoundly contaminated with mine tailings. Thanks to your criminally irresponsible mining industry.  Between now and ten years from now, you have to figure out one of two things:1. Where are you going to get enough water for those states?You aren't.2. Where are you going to put all the people who will have to migrate to somewhere else in the US?Let's see... The west coast has a chronic water shortage already, so they can't  go there. The south-western states are using up their aquifers because they don't get enough rain and the soil is no good, plus like the rest of the US, they have been contaminating their aquifers with lethal chemicals so they aren’t an option. The southern central states are downstream from all the northern states so what water they have is already contaminated before they get it. The south eastern states are filling their water courses with the tops of mountains so Republicans can burn "clean" coal. That kind of leaves you with the north east. Unfortunately Canada uses the north east states to dump its air borne emissions and we use Michigan as a garbage dump. So you might not want to send your midwesterners there. Oh and we recycle the Ohio valley emissions into New York state. So your country is out of water, full of toxic air, your soil is exhausted thanks to Monsanto and getting worse. And you're broke.Then you have to ask yourself another painful question:What exactly are all these migrants going to do to earn a living when they get jammed into wherever it is they end up? How will they pay to feed and house themselves?The repair manual for this condition was written in the thirties. It's called the Grapes of Wrath. Unfortunately, Steinbeck never wrote an ending so we could see how he thought the last depression should end. But the part he did write, you can count on repeating itself only worse.The other repair manual – Atlas Shrugged - was a fairy tale that Republicans bought into. No doubt if it can be rewritten so that the hero gets to wear a cape, mask and is endowed with super powers, the current generation will buy into it an traipse off down another rat hole. In the last depression there was the dust bowl. Thanks to Monsanto and modern farming techniques, that is on its way back as thousands of farms go out of service every year due to lack of water and lately - Monsanto's superweeds - notably pigweed. One thing Monsanto is leaving as a legacy - a weed that can survive Republicans and so aptly named.This time around, your population is much bigger. It needs the midwest to produce food. In ten years or so that won't be happening. What do you suppose people are going to eat?I don't know how many people live in the midwest but when they move - and they will have to move - they are going to have to be housed. Do you plan to clear cut all the rest of the trees you have left to build new houses for millions of people all at once? Oh I forgot, there is a surplus just now because the people who lived there couldn't afford them and moved into tents. No plans to house them I suppose?Forget about health and dental care. When your population is on the move, health care becomes a hit and miss thing. There will be a lot of obese people suddenly finding out how to lose weight in the complete absence of food and money.Your social systems are going to collapse and there will soon be riots in the streets that can only get worse thanks in large part to your gun manufacturers - all equipped with a moral stature the same size as T Rex’s brain – about the size of a pole bean.At the root of all this is the single glaring fact - America has too many people in it for the carrying capacity of the land. At some point Mother Nature and America’s criminal element are going to step in and take charge. It won't be pretty  but there will be a lot fewer people and bullets at the end of it. I bet you never thought you have to bury people in pits with bulldozers in America. But that is shortly going to be your new reality. For a complete description of the process read Stephen King's novel THE STAND. The bad guys will be different but the result will be the same.With one major difference. Stephen King had never thought of Canada as a viable destination when he wrote The Stand. When you run out of water, a lot of you are going to migrate north to Canada. Here you will soon find out why most of us live so close to the border. Most of Canada is uninhabitable. It's solid rock, not ice. You can't farm rock – or build much on it. Most of our water runs north to the Arctic Ocean - the wrong direction for you - and us. If it is rerouted to drain south, that will cause all sorts of even worse eco problems that would destablize the planet even worse. Your state governments are working on it using the “me first” principle.What isn’t farmland in Canada, or ice or rock is muskeg - land about 18” thick that floats over about five or six feet of ice cold water. Muskeg is full of black flies, mosquitos and deer flies. The flies don’t suck blood. They’re meat eaters.Nothing permanent can be built on muskeg, not even a tent.In the middle of all this will be the worst depression in history. Diseases now kept in check will run rampant. Expect epidemics. Crime will become far worse thanks to insane US gun laws. People will be murdered for food.In short, TOTAL anarchy is in your NEAR future if you don't get a handle on fossil fuel emissions.Think I'm wrong?  I predicted 9/11 in 1970 and painted a 8' x 4' mural depicting it. I did a 2' x 7' mural depicting it again in 1975. In 1978 I did it again with a painting that meaured 40 x 60". I sold the paintings long ago but I still have the photographs. This is real.It does not take a genius to predict the future. All it takes is an understanding of enough of the dynamics and the future is very easy to determine.In 1980 I predicted the Cancer epidemic. It’s happening.In 1990 I predicted the Diabetes epidemic that is just now coming on stream.In 1995, I predicted the Candidiasis epidemic. That is coming. Most of you have never heard of it because you know next to nothing about the food you eat and human physiology. But you will hear more about it. If you’re lucky you won’t get it. It’s a great reason to become a vegetarian.I have acurately predicted many human induced major disasters including the Larson B ice shelf . In 1998 scientists said it would take a thousand years to break off. I said collapse was immanent. It broke off in 2002. Whatever it takes to get the Republicans to get eco religion, you'd better get on it. You don't have much time and you have no choice. The whole thing can be worked out using graphs to approximate the date when the US will self destruct.All you have to do is fill in the blanks on these graphs (the information is all easily available):Set up a graph that shows annual population growth. Set up another graph that shows overall rate of fossil fuel emissions proliferation annually with dimishing environmental neutralization factored in.Another graph that shows declining water resources against requirements per capta annually. You can use the Australian south-east as a work in progress. They haven't had rain in seven years.Another graph that shows declining arable land annually. Use Haiti as a model.Another graph that shows it all combined: declining food production with water loss, soil destruction, global warming all factored in.Plot all of the curves on one  graph and where most of the lines intersect will be the date give or take a decade when the US stops breathing.To make it more accurate, you can do more graphs for other categories. At a certain point it won’t be necessary to add more because they'll all tend to intesect at approximately the same time.That is your unknowable future. I could get way more specific and graphic but it would be too scary for you to read. I didn't write this to be a jerk. I wrote it because I read the previous posts and it was obvious that even those of you who think you are capable of coming to grips with the immense problems are still not comprehending the nature, the scope or the immediacy of the problem. All of you are writing like there is plenty of time to fart around discussing the problems and evaluating theories. That time passed us by in 1989 when Texaco became the last major airline to add solvents to its aviation fuel. Kerosene was already bad enough as it was. Within five years of the oil industry adding solvents to aviation fuel frogs started going extinct. To see the relationship between the extinctions and the fuel all you need to do is look at aviation route maps with the frog extinction locations highlighted. Frogs and honey bees are far from the only species being wiped out by fossil fuel emissions. Sure the brain dead scientists are blaming the losses on fungii and viruses. But the immunological disruptions are fossil fuel generated.  The fungii and the viruses were already in the environment eons before now. We are transforming Earth into Venus and we are doing it very quickly. Want to take a trip to Venus to see what the accomodations are like?No? Well my advice is that you stop talking about Climate Change and Global Warming like it's an interesting science project and start talking in real terms and call it what it is - Chemical Winter - the chemical equivalent to nuclear fallout. Same ending, different process. You get just as dead in the long run along with everything else.   
  8. Steven Earl Salmony Posted 5:05 pm
    23 Apr 2009

    Saving the Earth and life as we know it will not be difficult at the moment the self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe among us, the ones possessing a lion's share of the world's wealth as well as bought-and-paid-for powermongers, decide to regard the Earth and its environs at least as important as the status, privileges, wealth and power which are derived from their conscious manipulation of the global economy for their and their cronies' selfish interests.

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