The skeptic tank

House Republicans bring strange theories and wacky witnesses to climate hearings 22

Man scratching his head.

Democratic leaders in the House are pushing hard to get a comprehensive climate and energy bill passed by summer, with discussion of their draft bill slated to begin this week. But at hearings designed to discuss the particulars of climate policy, Republican representatives and their witnesses have been bogging down the proceedings with skeptical rants and cockamamy theories.

Take, for example, the March 25 hearing on climate-change adaptation in the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment, chaired by Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.).

“The earth will end only when God declares its time is over,” declared Rep. John Shimkus (R-Ill.), explaining why it’s unnecessary to worry about climate change.  In an exchange with witness Lord Christopher Monckton (more on him below), Shimkus suggested the planet is “carbon-starved” and asked, “If we decrease the use of carbon dioxide, are we not taking away plant food from the atmosphere? ... So all our good intentions could be for vain.  In fact, we could be doing the opposite of what the people who want to save the world are saying.”

Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas) chimed in with his own analysis: “Adapting is a common natural way for people to adapt to their environment ... I believe that the earth’s climate is changing, but I think it’s changing for natural variation reasons,” he said. “And I think mankind has been adopting, or adapting to climate as long as man has walked the earth. When it rains, we find shelter. When it’s hot, we get shade. When it’s cold, we find a warm place to stay.”

A few weeks earlier, at a hearing on renewable power, Barton raised the question of whether expanding wind power might actually cause the planet to heat up:

Wind is God’s way of balancing heat. Wind is the way you shift heat from areas where it’s hotter to areas where it’s cooler. That’s what wind is. Wouldn’t it be ironic if in the interest of global warming we mandated massive switches to energy, which is a finite resource, which slows the winds down, which causes the temperature to go up? Now, I’m not saying that’s going to happen, Mr. Chairman, but that is definitely something on the massive scale. I mean, it does make some sense. You stop something, you can’t transfer that heat, and the heat goes up. It’s just something to think about.

(And if you think that’s bad, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) told ABC on Sunday that “the idea that carbon dioxide is a carcinogen that is harmful to our environment is almost comical. ... Every cow in the world, you know, when they do what they do, you’ve got more carbon dioxide.”)

The witness skepticism program

The witnesses Republicans bring to hearings are just as out of touch with climate science.

Democrats, who control Congress and thus chair its committees, schedule hearings on topics of their choosing and invite witnesses. A committee chair isn’t required to grant the minority party their pick of witnesses, but if the minority objects to the panel, they can request a second day of the hearing for which they pick all the witnesses. To avoid that messiness, chairs tend to let the minority pick at least one or two panelists.

At the March 25 hearing, Democrats’ five witnesses included the director of the National Climatic Data Center at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the director of natural resources and environment at the Government Accountability Office, and leaders from the National Wildlife Federation, the National Council of Churches, and Oxfam America.

The NOAA representative, Tom Karl, presented on the trends toward increased droughts and forest fires, and an uptick in the frequency and severity of coastal storms that the agency forecasts. John Stephenson from the GAO talked about the “growing understanding” at his agency that the costs of inaction could be greater than the costs of mitigating climate change. Even the witnesses who don’t work in climate science or government stuck to the topic at hand—adapting to a warmed world—without claiming expertise they don’t possess.  Bishop Callon Holloway of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, speaking on behalf of the National Council of Churches, testified about the “call to be good stewards of the earth,” reflecting on the values of “stewardship and justice” that should compel us to protect the poor who would be affected by climate change.

In stark contrast, the Republicans’ witnesses challenged the very idea of climate change, and thus the whole basis for the hearing.  First up was E. Calvin Beisner of the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, who warned that “fear of catastrophic, man-made global warming is a mistake,” and argued that because the “biblical worldview sees the world and ecosystems as the work of a wise God,” humankind couldn’t possibly be affecting the climate. Going further, he warned that restricting the amount of carbon put into the atmosphere would harm the poor, and that Americans are “morally obligated to provide access for the poor to affordable, abundant fossil fuels.”

The minority’s second witness was Lord Christopher Monckton, aka the 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, a British hereditary peer who’s become a minor star in the climate-skeptic world. “The right response to the non-problem of global warming is to have the courage to do nothing,” he told the panel. He readily agreed with Rep. Shimkus: “We are a carbon-starved planet.”

Monckton argued that if Congress moved to address climate change, it would “create green jobs by the thousands and eliminate real jobs by the millions ... Green jobs are the new euphemism for vast unemployment.”

He also contended that aggressive environmental regulation in California has prompted a vast exodus from the state. “Everyone with the means to get up and go is getting up and going, and unlike their robotic governor, they won’t be back,” Monckton said—though he offered no evidence of a mass migration. (In reality, the state’s overall population continues to grow, even though the number of people moving out of California has slightly surpassed the number moving in.)

Monckton has a colorful history—journalist by training, advisor to Margaret Thatcher, business consultant, and developer of the high-selling Eternity puzzle—but no background in climate science.  Nonetheless, he’s touted by climate deniers as an “expert” on the topic, and serves as chief policy adviser to the Science & Public Policy Institute, a climate-skeptic group. Republicans also trotted Monckton out as a witness at a Ways and Means Committee hearing on climate change in February, and he appeared at the climate skeptics summit sponsored by the conservative Heartland Institute in early March. (See George Monbiot, DeSmogBlog, and Deltoid for more on Monckton.)

“This was a serious hearing on a serious issue,” an aide to the Energy and Commerce Committee told Grist of the March 25 panel. “We gave the other side advance notice on the kinds of witnesses [Democratic leaders] were choosing. They chose to invite Monckton. ... If this is the witness that they want to choose, even though he’s contradicted by U.S. government scientists, then we’re going to move forward.”

Will the GOP play ball or throw sand?

Climate legislation will be highly complex, with society-wide ramifications. So far this year, there have been 11 hearings on the topic in the Energy and Environment Subcommittee alone, and there will be a number of additional hearings over the coming weeks focusing specifically on the draft climate plan from Markey and Energy and Commerce Committee Chair Henry Waxman (D-Calif.). Markey has said they left many specifics out of their draft because they “want to hear from all affected parties” on, for instance, how to minimize impacts on citizens and help energy-intensive businesses adapt to a new regulatory scheme.

But instead of inviting witnesses who could speak to these critical concerns, the Republican committee members have thus far preferred to invite climate skeptics.

Asked about the prospects for meaningful Republican participation in crafting a climate bill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) acknowledged recently that there might not be much, if any. “We would hope to have Republican votes as we go forward on this,” she said. “Will I not put it forth unless I do? No. There’s an inevitability to this that everyone has to understand.”

The Energy and Commerce Committee will hold its first four hearings on the Waxman-Markey bill this week, starting on Tuesday. Democratic leaders aim to pass the legislation out of committee by Memorial Day, and out of the full House by July. If you want to know how seriously Republicans are taking the process, keep an eye on these hearings.

Kate Sheppard is Grist’s political reporter.

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  1. sindark's avatar

    sindark Posted 8:48 am
    20 Apr 2009

    The degree to which the Republican party has become anti-science and ensnared by the religious right is truly remarkable, and quite depressing.
  2. Sean Casten's avatar

    Sean Casten Posted 9:43 am
    20 Apr 2009

    But Monckton has to be smart.  He has an british accent.  Next thing I know, you're going to suggest that I shouldn't take investment advice from John Houseman.
  3. godfreye Posted 10:24 am
    20 Apr 2009

    Will the Republicans be presenting pro-flat earth witnesses next?
  4. Delay And Deny's avatar

    Delay And Deny Posted 3:00 pm
    20 Apr 2009

    Confronted with the insurmountable absurdism of Climacatatrophism in the Orthodoxy, the Republican response is absurd...by design! Because the only response to an absurd ideology is rebellion which appears as absurd to the Pharasees of AGW. Cf.  TOS, S2E12, "I, Mudd" 
  5. Dash RIPROCK III's avatar

    Dash RIPROCK III Posted 6:03 pm
    20 Apr 2009

    Sindark, the republican party is not anti-science.  Disagreement with AGW does not make one anti-science.  I could use a little less religous right myself and I am a political conservative.When I see AGW supporters make comments like this, I always like to ask what you believe the most credible pieces of scientific evidence are that support anthropogenic global warming.  All too often, debates within the blogosphere are reduced to ad hominem attacks.  I have to admit that I'm guilty of that from time to time.  I would welcome your answer to this question.  
    1. Climate Scientist's avatar

      Climate Scientist Posted 7:18 pm
      20 Apr 2009

      Here is what I (an IPCC 2007 Contributing Author) consider to be a credible piece of scientific evidence that supports anthropogenic global warming. The blog entry at the link first explains the difference between weather and climate. Skeptics cite meteorologists inability to predict the weather next week let alone next century. Climate and weather are not the same thing. Climate and weather "forecasts" are thus a common source of confusion. The blog then invokes one of the IPCC 2007 results to illustrate the effect of humans on climate.
      1. Dash RIPROCK III's avatar

        Dash RIPROCK III Posted 7:42 pm
        20 Apr 2009

        Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply.  I shall review it and get back with you shortly.You're are only the second UN IPCC contributing authors I've met.  Would you mind if I asked you at some future point a few questions about how the report is prepared?As for your comment on weather vs. Climate, how could anyone disagree.  While Skeptics get a chuckle out of cold weather seemingly following Al Gore around (come on, admit it, it's funny) it proves nothing.Another source of confusion is that AGW supporters often confuse the results of global warming as being proof of of anthropogenic global warming. Your comments?
  6. Dash RIPROCK III's avatar

    Dash RIPROCK III Posted 6:16 pm
    20 Apr 2009

    Sean,Monckton is quite smart.  If you take the time to view his film Apocalypse now, you'll find that the Cambridge students thought they were going to eat him alive with highly technical questions.  I feel quite sure that his answers shocked them.  Not because there was anything shocking about them, but because they didn't expect him to be able to answer the question.You might also review his paper on the 35 errors in An Inconvenient truth.  Again, you'll soon see why he's in high demand as a speaker on this topic.Your accent comment is actually rather funny.  American's do tend to attach a certain amount of brain power to a British accent whether it's deserved or not.  In Monckton's case I can assure you that it is.As for Houseman, hell I'd take financial advice from anybody right now.  Can't be any worse that the advice I've already received in this area...LOLI'll ask you the same question that I asked SINDARK.  What do you believe the most credible pieces of "scientific evidence" in support of anthropogenic global warming are at this time?  No ad hominem attacks I promise. 
    1. Sean Casten's avatar

      Sean Casten Posted 2:34 pm
      21 Apr 2009

      Dash,I'm not a scientist.  But frankly, whether one believes that the GW is A or not is immaterial.  If the water level was rising around your house, would you not act?  Maybe you act by buying sandbags, maybe you act by buying a new house, or maybe you act by paddling upstream to figure out how to slow down the water.  Is there any scenario where you don't act unless you can first satisfy yourself that the problem is man-made?I will tell you that I find the ice core evidence compelling, and - as a person who was first trained as a biologist, but haven't worked as one for years - see the folly in anyone who sees exponential growth curves and presumes that they are perpetual.  (There is no biological or physical cycle I'm aware of that doesn't look like an S or bell curve over a long enough time cycle.  To look at the exponential increase in CO2 concentrations and our exponential rate of fossil fuel combustion and presume that is sustainable is folly, regardless of whether or not one can confidently articulate the consequences.)  A world in which 50% of all the natural gas humanity has ever burned has been burned since 1990 is not a world that is planning for optionality and flexibilty in the wake of an uncertain future.  You may not see that failure as an ecological crisis - but limiting options and constraining possible futures is certainly a financial crisis in the making.But I turn the larger question back to you: why would you not act to reduce our rate of CO2 emissions and ameliorate the risk?  Or, if you prefer, answer a purely economic question: what possible reason is there for us not to burn less fossil fuel?
    2. chupacabra Posted 11:37 am
      22 Apr 2009

      DR-There is no single piece of evidence that leads me to the conclusion that global warming is very probably anthropogenic, but if I had to narrow it to as fine a point as possible, I'd say that the IPCC 4th Assessment, Working Group 1, Chapter 9 contains the most persuasive links in the chain of evidence.  In a nutshell, it shows that the increase in temperature since about mid-20th century is not explainable except by factoring in anthropogenic forcings.  This is not proof, obviously, but shows that the probability is very high that GW is AGW.
  7. Dash RIPROCK III's avatar

    Dash RIPROCK III Posted 6:24 pm
    20 Apr 2009

    GodFreye, what would be the point of debating the flat earth thing?I mean the flat-earthers have a consensus do they not?  Isn't that howscience is settled these days?  No?  Really?That's the type of ad hominem stuff I'm talking about.  The mud slinging going on by both sides needs to stop.  You can compare me to a flat-earther or holocaust denier, but that still doesn' mean that GW is CO2 driven.  So Godfrey, what did it for you from an evidence standpoint?  I'm not talking about which groups agree or disagree or what Monckton or Gore said, but actual scientific evidence.  When I ask this question, I often receive a long list of things being caused by global warming.  To be clear, I'm interested in the evidence you believe makes anthropogenic global warming a sure thing?
  8. jwebb's avatar

    jwebb Posted 7:01 am
    21 Apr 2009

    Mr. Riprock, IIIWhile you research the IPCC report, lets get back to the reason for commenting on this story.  The story shows a perception that Republican witnesses to hearings on climate change do not lend credibility to their argument.  One argument is that God is smarter than us and we can't screw up his domain.  I thought 2 people in a garden did that a while back, but I don't have a theological degree or pertain to be an expert.  A second argument from a Republican witness was that "green jobs" equals unemployment and that California is experiencing a mass exodus.  Kate supplies data on the latter.  I know that it surprises some people to find that comments on news pieces include unsubstantiated attacks on say- government, politicians, etc.  Such is the comment section of the Financial Times or Wall Street Journal, and a little bit further on NewsCorp, but i don't think the use of "ad hominem" is justified as it isn't going after your character or any other commenter or appealing to prejudices instead of intellect.  I assume by your undecidedness on AGW that you do agree that there is plain old GW?  If so, do we have a responsibility to ensure that America plans to protect its citizens into the future?  Is your argument that if we didn't cause it we can't change it?  I'm confused as to what your standpoint is...
    1. Dash RIPROCK III's avatar

      Dash RIPROCK III Posted 11:03 am
      21 Apr 2009

      Jwebb,Thank you for commenting.  The "ad hominem" comment was aimed at the flat-earther remark.  Whether those who fully support AGW like it or not, those who disagree on scientific grounds should not be compared to flat-earthers, holocaust deniers, and those who are still so foolish to believe that man never landed on the moon.  It's insulting, arrogant, and uncalled for.  To be sure, the ad hominem attacks have gone both ways, but I was not implying that Kate's article fell into this category.She is guilty of employing a bit of a double standard with regard to the importance of scientific credentials or lack thereof.  Gore, who as you know has testified as well, is also quite lacking in scientific credentials.  It's brought up frequently on Skeptic (actually we prefer the term realist) sites, but I don't know that Kate has called Mr. Gore out for the same criticism she has of Lord Monckton.  I sent her an email posing that question.  So far, no response.As for the religous remarks that became part of the record, I don't believe there is a place for that in this arguement.  We have separation of church and state for a reason.You are correct in your assumption that I do believe GW has occured at various points in the earth's history.  As for your arguement regarding the need to do something to protect our citizen's future, hopefully you'll agree that moving ahead too quickly on environmental issues can cause problems as well.  That's a bit of lengthy arguement, but I'll gladly enter into a full discussion with you on this if you wish.As for California, I'll wait for the next census to make a decision on population trends.  The states lets throw money at problems until they go away mentality has caught up with it.  I'm not sure it's the people you lose that will be noticed first.  It is more than likely jobs that will be lost first, followed by population.  More than a few businesses have left CA for states friendlier to business.  It did not go unnoticed by the State of California.  At one point sinking to the point of running television commercials making fun of Texas and encouraging business to stay in California.  So while I'm not a census taker and can't speak to Monckton's comments on this either way, the ad run by the State of California speaks for itself. Obviously the state knows that jobs are departing for states that are percieved to be friendlier to industry. Finally, as to the reason for my joining grist, the posting here seems to be more factual.  There does seem to be a higher degree of respect among the posters here than one might on DK or HuffPo or desmogblog. The fundemental question to be asked JWebb is whether or not GW is anthropogenic.  Either the amount of CO2 and a few other GHG produced by man are exacerbating perhaps I should say contributing to this problem or they are not.  Gore's film was full of errors.  In some cases he seems to be intentially toying with the truthl  The degree to which he infuriated many who were expecting a completely honest even-handed report from Gore is very high.  You can count me among those who became angry by it.For now, I've decided to put my feeling regarding the world's most famous AGW cheerleader aside.  The question I've posed to several posters here is an honest one.  I'd like to know, when it comes to AGW, which piece of evidence in your opinion bats the ball out of the park.  President Obama has suggested that he science is indisputable.  Frankly I'm not seeing it.  Evidence based primarily on  incomplete surface data or less than accurate computer models doesn't leave me fully convinced.  I've arrived at Grist, an olive branch in my hand, sincerely asking the posters here what they believe the most impressive piece of AGW evidenceto be.  Please feel free to respond to that question yourself. Sincerely,Dash
  9. Catmoves Posted 2:09 pm
    21 Apr 2009

    I cannot believe that such a potentially deadly and serious issue is being reduced to party politics on your pages. You who are guilty of this may hang your heads in shame.  The subject is way beyond your puny politics. As for Dash RIPROCK III, perhaps he might get someone to edit his/her copy. He/she is an embarrassment to the movement. If he/she is using English as a second language, then the editors should help this person out.
  10. Dash RIPROCK III's avatar

    Dash RIPROCK III Posted 4:04 pm
    21 Apr 2009

    Thank you for your comment Cat.  I present a "Can't See The Forest For The Trees" award as often as I feel the need to do so.  You're today's winner.I think I represent a lot of people posting here when I say that you can take your elitist attitude to another site.  I'm sure you'd be welcomed at the Huffington Post or DeSmogBlog.Another idea might be to find a posting board sponsored by the Modern Language Association where you might enjoy the opportunity to converse with other pedantic individuals like yourself.
  11. Vernan Posted 5:04 am
    22 Apr 2009

    Many religions believe that there will come a time when God will destroy the wicked on the earth.  Most religions believe that the wicked are those disobeying the 10 commandments and are not repentant.  What if it also includes those willingly destroying the Earth for monetary gain?  That is the bottom line on why we are in this situation - greed, money over taking care of the Earth.  Maybe they ought to get on board before God kills them for failing to take care of his gift.
  12. snowmaneasy Posted 5:47 am
    22 Apr 2009

    It would be nice to leave the consensus climate alarmists alone. After all, the hypothesis that anthropogenic gases might cause warming is not unreasonable. It may even be true, although so far the evidence (or lack of it) argues otherwise.What takes consensus climate science into Huxley’s realm of absurdity is its dogmatic insistent that all other hypotheses are not just wrong, but so wrong that they should not be debated or, better, not even heard by the public or other scientists.Moreover, the consensus climate science alarmists, and their environmentalist supporters, refuse to leave the rest of us alone. Instead, they wish to impose economy-crippling measures based on a global-warming hypothesis that becomes more and more surreal with each year that warming does not occur.
  13. snowmaneasy Posted 5:52 am
    22 Apr 2009

    Very good article....David Evans | July 18, 2008 Article from:  The Australian I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.FullCAM models carbon flows in plants, mulch, debris, soils and agricultural products, using inputs such as climate data, plant physiology and satellite data. I've been following the global warming debate closely for years. When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty good: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the old ice core data, no other suspects. The evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we were certain when it appeared we needed to act quickly? Soon government and the scientific community were working together and lots of science research jobs were created. We scientists had political support, the ear of government, big budgets, and we felt fairly important and useful (well, I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the planet. But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" There has not been a public debate about the causes of global warming and most of the public and our decision makers are not aware of the most basic salient facts: 1. The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it. Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics. We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever. If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again. When the signature was found to be missing in 2007 (after the latest IPCC report), alarmists objected that maybe the readings of the radiosonde thermometers might not be accurate and maybe the hot spot was there but had gone undetected. Yet hundreds of radiosondes have given the same answer, so statistically it is not possible that they missed the hot spot. Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot. If you believe that you'd believe anything. 2. There is no evidence to support the idea that carbon emissions cause significant global warming. None. There is plenty of evidence that global warming has occurred, and theory suggests that carbon emissions should raise temperatures (though by how much is hotly disputed) but there are no observations by anyone that implicate carbon emissions as a significant cause of the recent global warming. 3. The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980). Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979. NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling. 4. The new ice cores show that in the past six global warmings over the past half a million years, the temperature rises occurred on average 800 years before the accompanying rise in atmospheric carbon. Which says something important about which was cause and which was effect. None of these points are controversial. The alarmist scientists agree with them, though they would dispute their relevance. The last point was known and past dispute by 2003, yet Al Gore made his movie in 2005 and presented the ice cores as the sole reason for believing that carbon emissions cause global warming. In any other political context our cynical and experienced press corps would surely have called this dishonest and widely questioned the politician's assertion. Until now the global warming debate has merely been an academic matter of little interest. Now that it matters, we should debate the causes of global warming. So far that debate has just consisted of a simple sleight of hand: show evidence of global warming, and while the audience is stunned at the implications, simply assert that it is due to carbon emissions. In the minds of the audience, the evidence that global warming has occurred becomes conflated with the alleged cause, and the audience hasn't noticed that the cause was merely asserted, not proved. If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now? The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory. What is going to happen over the next decade as global temperatures continue not to rise? The Labor Government is about to deliberately wreck the economy in order to reduce carbon emissions. If the reasons later turn out to be bogus, the electorate is not going to re-elect a Labor government for a long time. When it comes to light that the carbon scare was known to be bogus in 2008, the ALP is going to be regarded as criminally negligent or ideologically stupid for not having seen through it. And if the Liberals support the general thrust of their actions, they will be seen likewise. The onus should be on those who want to change things to provide evidence for why the changes are necessary. The Australian public is eventually going to have to be told the evidence anyway, so it might as well be told before wrecking the economy.
  14. jwebb's avatar

    jwebb Posted 6:16 am
    22 Apr 2009

    Let's not cut and paste comments, take the time to use your own thoughts and ideas- or at least provide the original information to give a little credit and honesty.  Perhaps the real point in this article, and not exactly in the following debate, is that I haven't seen another hypothesis combating AGW.  So Dash and SME- present the facts that support your argument so we can have a debate.  Sean brought up ice core data, and CO2 atmsopheric levels.  All I got from your points were attacks on commenters.  Tell me we are cooling and show me the data and peer reviewed report.  Tell me glaciers are growing and that ice sheets break off all the time.  Tell me we're a CO2 starved planet and that China's building of coal fired power plants is a good thing because Walmart saves us money.  Show me where in the past measures that improved human health were "economy crippling." I guess OSHA is responsible for my high property tax, the FDA makes my vegetables too expensive, and the EPA should have left the superfund sites alone so i can send my kids to the private school of my choice?  My opinion is that the leave us alone approach gave us robber barons and indentured servitude, which would be nice if I wouldn't be in the serf class.  I drink the water that Dow chemical discharges into our rivers, I eat the genetically modified food that hasn't been tested, and I would like someone trying to keep me safe.  How about the war on terror or war on drugs crippling our economy and incarcerating a higher percentage of Americans than any other industrialized nation?  Tell me why we should spend money on those but not worry about health?  I personally don't want to pay your Medicare (cough- socialism) bills if you smoke and get lung cancer, but that's just the government we live with.
  15. dwightlooi Posted 9:41 am
    25 Apr 2009

    The problem with the Global Warming Hypothesis is that it is a
    Hypothesis
    -- an unproven argument. There are a large amount of
    scientific and historical info which contradicts it in part or in
    entirety. However, there is not, and has never been, an honest
    discussion on global warming. Instead, its proponents have
    systematically shut out any opposing voices and branded -- with the
    enthusiastic collaboration of biased media, zealous academia and mislead politicians -- anyone
    who disagrees as lunatics or heretics. Nobody wants to recognize or
    talk about the FACT that global temperatures dropped between 2007 and
    present day back to 1989 levels, that it dropped sharply between 1940
    to 1977 causing alarmists of the day to preach an impending ice age,
    that current temperatures are actually cooler than about half the
    historical levels going back to the age of the dinosaurs or that there
    is more ice in the antarctic now than at any point in the last 30 years
    -- all while CO2 concentrations increased during all of the
    aforementioned episodes. These are not wacky theories, these are FACTS -- verifiable scientific records and data. Instead, we are being asked to accept Global
    Warming as an axiom and accept carbon emissions control -- and it's
    negative effects on our economic performance -- as a top priority in
    governance. Can you imagine if -- during the Global Cooling scare of the 1970s -- we had enacted global protocols and tough policies to introduce CFCs into the atmosphere in order to hopefully prevent the coming of an ice age? If we do not have an honest discussion about global climate change, we may very well be on the verge of making the same kind of mistake. And, we are NOT having an honest discussion; we can't be when the opposing view points are not permitted. Instead, what we have is a good number of democrats, academics, members of the media and citizen faithfuls trying to turn the Global Warming movement into a religion and turn enviromental policy into a platform for theocratic rule.
    1. profmom Posted 7:16 am
      27 Apr 2009

      dwightlooi, your post brings us back to the original article point. If there is all this evidence against GW, or against our role in causing GW, and if there are so many respected scientists who have carried out research disputing GW, then why didn't the republicans in congress bring witnesses from these groups of scientists, who could present all this evidence, instead of bringing witnesses who apparently can testify that they have the inside track to God's mind & plan for us, and who have no scientific background? Yes, the democrats have had Gore testify, and no, he doesn't have the scientific background, but they also included a number of notable scientists among their witnesses.
      1. dwightlooi Posted 6:38 pm
        28 Apr 2009

        Because, they are not allowed to? Because the Democrats are using their majority to deny the testimony of anyone who presents a counterpoint? Not only that, but the global warming mafia will try to shut out print, broadcast and journal access to anyone who challenges their hypothesis. Let's put it this way... this Chris Mockton was the scientific advisor to the Margaret Tharcher. He is apparently prepared to defend this position and arguments. Why isn't he allowed to testify? I am pretty sure that a gang of PhDs who disagree with the global warming can be lined up as well, but the dems are simply shutting them up by decree! If you don't agree, you don't get heard. In the meanwhile I challenge you to try to contradict four facts... (1) The last few years saw a sharp drop in global temperatures and temps today is about late 80s level. (2) Global temperatures at its peak in the last decade is cooler than when Dinosuars walked the earth. (3) Global temperatures plumeted 1940 to 1977 depsite an increase in CO2 concentration. (4) Scientists have found no hotspots in the upper atmosphere and no evidence of a greenhouse effect. Unlike Global Warming, these are not hypothesises, these are simple facts.

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